Thursday, February 14, 2008

HCSB

I love the King James Bible. I was saved before I hardly knew there were other translations out there! I grew up on it, & will likely always use it in study & preaching. But I must admit that I also really appreciate the NKJV & the NASB. While I will likely never move away from using the old KJV for my primary study Bible, I have really begun to appreciate the HCSB, or Holman Christian Standard Bible lately. I am not a Greek scholar, & certainly not Hebrew, but I really like it's readability, & it sure seems accurate acording to what I have read & studied of the Greek & Hebrew under good conservative scholars past & present. But I must say that what truly turned me around to begin looking seriously at it was when I realized that good ol' Dr. Art Farstad who is now with the Lord, was one of the men who was in on the ground floor of the translation project. I really appreciated Dr. Farstad & am looking forward to meeting him in Heaven. Have any of you out there had any dealings with the HCSB & if so, what is your thoughts on the matter? I appreciate any & all comments. May the Lord bless you all.

35 comments:

ExPreacherMan said...

Bro. David,

I am still an old KJV adherent, Scofield Reference version. I have read very little from the Holman, just some reference notes, so my reasoning is from my prejudiced view.

When I trusted Christ I bought the same Bible used exclusively by the church under whose ministry I was saved. The Pastor would give page numbers to the reference verses and I quickly learned how to find, study and cross-reference verses. I did the same when I became a Pastor.. because this standard was easy for new believers to follow and study.

I suppose one could justify using the HCSB, NASB, NIV, NKJV, The Message, etc, etc. Each is different and some, like The Message, are way-out different -- to the point of outright apostasy. The NIV is a close second in places. I have heard the Renovare' Bible is terrible.

But I do believe that fundamental, dispensational Pastors need a standard from which to teach. Only one version today has an historical, verifiable, researchable background of study material from proven, solid, dispensational Bible Scholars as does the Old KJV. (Strongs Exhaustive Concordance, Bible Knowledge Commentary, etc) However, a believer must still use discernment -- applying scripture to verify scripture in context.

Older, mature believers may use other versions for personal comparison and study.. but, like you, I still prefer to use the Old King James Version.

Often other versions, translations and paraphrases will have the Truths of Scripture nuanced to the point that we may not see any similarity between the two translations of a simple verse like John 3:16. I firmly believe that some versions are deliberately obscure to confuse the unsaved and the brethren.

I have been accused of being a Luddite or at worst, a Troglodyte... but I will hang on to my Old KJV until the Rapture.. or until The Lord calls me home. My KJV will remain on earth for someone else. Once in Heaven I won't need it because I will be able to worship, converse with and be taught by the Author Himself, Jesus Christ. That will be The Real Correct Version.

In Christ eternally,

ExP(Jack

Andrew said...

Hi David,

I've read some of the HCSB and I quite like it. I find it to be a fresh and accurate translation that I really like. I think the NKJV is a little archaic in places whereas the HCSB is translated into a style of English that is contemporary. The NIV does this but at times goes too far with interpreting the text in my opinion. The HCSB has for the most part avoided this. So I like it.

The only thing I don't like about it is the fact that they used the Nestle-Aland text for the NT translation. Originally, as far as I know, they were going to use the Hodges-Farstad Majority text but for some reason, that plan never was carried out and instead the Nestle-Aland/UBS text was used. Perhaps the change in leadership after Farstad's death had something to do with it. I find this rather sad because Dr Farstad and Zane Hodges put a lot of work into their critical text but as yet there exists no committee translation of their text in English. However someone has translated the NT from that text (with a few variations taken from Robinson and Pierpont's Majority text) here. So as I said, that's the only thing that disappoints me with the HCSB.

Overall though, I think it's a very good translation.

God bless,
Andrew

David Wyatt said...

Bro. Jack,

As always brother, you say a lot in a few words! Thank you. I agree that I wil likely keep on using the good ol' KJV til death or Rapture, or God forbid, I lose what little mind I have, whichever comes first! I agree wityh you about the so-called Message. That is terrible. Also the NIV is a least foavorite because of what bro. Andrew pointed out, they often interpret texts rather than translate them.
Bro. Andrew you make some great points! I did not realize that they used that ol Nestle Aland test. I would have been sure they would have used the Hodges/Farstad. Thanks so much for the link! Y'all are a blessing! Any other comments?

Only Look said...

Hey brother. My pastor introduced us to the HCSB about 4 years ago when it was in the process of being finished and only the NT was complete.

I read the HCSB every morning for devotions.

I have just ordered a Ryrie Study Bible though in the NAS because the NAS is said to be the most accurate. I also just ordered So Great Salvation and dispensationalism by Ryrie as well. Thank you for encouraging me in some of Dr Ryries works. I have often felt that I am close in agreement with Him. It will be good to study Dispensationalism as well. I was raised to believe Dispensationalism as well as read the KJV, but sometimes I found some texts in the Bible that didn't always square with it so I don't know if I am a progressive Disp or Classic. It will be good to really give it a good study by starting with Ryrie.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

Only Look said...

BTW, Dr James White has done us all a great service in writing the book King James Controversy. I encourage you to give it a read. You don't have to agree with his Calvinistic leanings, but you will learn much and helpful information. Please give it a chance. I have read much of the KJV only material as well as Hodges and Farstads Majority texts material. While I do agree that the Byzantine should be priority I am not willing to throw aside the Word of God translated from the Nestle text type. It is still the word of God. Also the NAS still takes the Byzantine into consideration and you can see it it such texts as John 3:16 as they use the word begotten. Dr Whites book is helpful because he does expose some of the miss information on this issue that unfortunately occurs. IOW, we must be careful not to bare false witness in order to protect what we feel is the most faithful witness textually. This is an important issue because years ago my brother gave me an NIV and while I was in OKINAWA in the Marine Corps I began to read it and start to walk with the Lord. I then found a group of brothers to go to Church with and ride a van down towards Kadena called Maranatha. When I brought my NIV with me they began to pressure and warn me that this was not the Word of God and would not leave me alone. Then they jumped all over the pastor and harped on him all day in spite of the fact that he was being good to us in inviting us into his home and encouraging us. That evening after the service and on the whole ride back to Camp Shcwab they warned me that I was like a frog in lukewarm water about to be boiled and not even knowing it. I went home so discouraged that night and put my bible in my wallocker and decided not to read it anymore so confused and wanting to weep feeling as if God was rejecting me or something. I began to avoid those men. '

Since that time I have grown in my understanding and truly believe that this KJV onlyism is Satanic in actuality. Are these believers Satanic?

No....but Satan has his vices to rob us of the Joy of the Lord and grace upon grace.

These people that get hung up on KJVonlyism and Calvinism often seem to get into this fleshly mindset that destroys the cause of Christ. Thinking to advance the kingdom they do great harm to it.

If a person is reading a decent translation or even if they are reading the message, I am going to be extremely careful because God may actually be reaching them in ways that we cannot conceive. This does not mean that I must endorse translations, but that I must take great care to consider that the mind of God and the ways of God are greater than I may know. I do want to encourage people in a more literal text that is closer in agreement with the Majorities....but I better be careful not to make one of the least of these stumble. So the stunning irony is that James White understands this KJV only thing and the damage it does, but unfortunately cannot see that the way he contends about the Sovereignty of God can be equally damaging. Perhaps in time he will see it, but consider giving it a good read. In the blogisphere James White does at times revert to tactics similar to Antonio and those men in Okinawa, but this book is also edited by other men...so it is very helpful. May we all learn not to use our vices to help defeat the kingdom we want to joyfully encourage others to believe in.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

Only Look said...

Another thing that grieves me is that Pensecola Christian College has attacked a wonderful brother and professor named Stewert Custer. Bob Jones has undergone a sorrowful rift among the brethren over this issue and the book "From the Mind of God to the mind of men" was written in a reconciliatory attempt.

Clearly in my view this is Satan doing his damage and using his vices. Some wounds over the past years will be hard healed, but I also think that Bob Jones has ironically learned a lesson as well in how they attacked other brethren presumptuously in the past. It is a tragic thing to witness and it seems to always occur when we get away from the simplicity in following Jesus and onto peripherial issues that we feel should take preeminance, yet we cannot see that we often are not contected to the head in doing so and spoil ourselves from the fruit and joy of knowing Him.

I watched the videos from Pensecola and their professors and the only thing I can liken it to is that evil eye and smart aleck attitude that Calvinists often get and have concluded in my own life that I must beware when I start to get this way as well. Am I being influenced by the precious Saviour or a suble vice of Satan?

Knowlege puffeth up but charity edifieth.

Your radio program is an encouragement brother. I like how the sweet fruit of Jesus comes out of you over the airwaves and yet I often find myself lovingly admonished at times as well.

Ok...I am done. As you may know...you all have hit a nerve

:-)

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Bro. Brian,

I certainly sense God-honored wisdom from your remarks. I sure do resonate with your KJO-only remarks. I love the KJV & use it, but I do not go anywhere near the point that it is somehow inspired itself & without error & that all other translations are somehow of the devil. I like Doug Kutilek's work on this issue as well. Check it out at www.kjvonly.org. I also don't agree with everything he says, but he sure does make some good sense about this issue.
That was very sad about the men in Okinawa telling you & your pastor that the NIV you were using was not the Word of God & disfellowshipped from you because of it. Thank you also for your encouraging words about the ministry of BBN. I am also glad you are beginning with Dr. Ryrie's book! I believe he is very Biblicall-balanced. Also, try our course on the BBN BI on Dispensational Theology by Dr. Renald Showers. Excellent! God Bless you my brother!

Only Look said...

Hi brother. God bless you. He gives us all wisdom if we remember to become a child. He doesnt play monopoly with it. I guess we try to:-)

I enjoy both reading and hearing the overflowing wisdom he gives you. I learn from so many. It seems we can learn from everyone, especially those of the household of faith.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

Only Look said...

BTW,

That pastor from Okinawa was not my pastor. He was affiliated with brother Lowel Davey...your boss from BBN's brother. Keith Davey and Missions to the Military.
I only went that one time and did not return. I couldnt figure out what was going on that day wondered at the time if I was being beguiled by Satan.

I do try to stay away from any and all KJV links anymore. That wisdom does not come from above, but is sensual in my opinion and self serving in areas contrary to the faith. A lot of legalism and damage has been done through it.

Again

Grace upon grace,

Brian

Only Look said...

Hey David,

This passage has been helpful to me in seeing wherein the temptation away from true wisdom and sensuality that unearths itself in KJV onlyism and Calvinism:

"Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peacable, gentle, willing to yeild, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." James 3:13-18

Gotta goooooo and spend a belated Valentines dinner day with my wife today:-)

Love the fellowship brother and grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Well how about that! Bro. Keith Davey. Amazing. I really appreciate him & Dr. Lowell Davey. God has surely used those dear saints!
I am also thankful for your fellowship in the Gospel. Good words again bro!
Enjoy the late date with your sweetie! God Bless.

Only Look said...

Hey David, thanks so much for recommending Ryries stuff. I have my Ryrie Study Bible in today and a few days ago I received Dispensationalism. The think I struggled with most was "How could God be genuine in his offer to establish the Davidic Kingdom to Israel?" I have struggled with that for a long time. I grew up on Scofield myself but for some reason this wasnt registering. I walked through this with Ryrie and as he pulled in the Chafer quote about God's command to Adam and compared it to Israel, a bell went off in my head. So I have to say that I am now leaning in a classic Dispensational direction now. I still have to hash through the endtimes. Ryrie is very blessed to have such a gift of communicating as well as patience with his fellow brethren and detractors to other views.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Amen bro. Brian! I agree. Dr. Ryrie has long been a great help to me as well. I am thankful to hear that you are leaning toward classic dispensationalism, but the Lord will make His word plain as we depend on Him to do it, & study, study, study! God Bless you my brother!

Only Look said...

Thanks for your encouragement brother. I may at some point take the BBN course. I know it is free. How long does it take? Do you get any college credits at all or is it just a discipleship course. I do have some credits from Bob Jones University and have considered taking some of their correspondance, but they require a little more than Liberty does in that you must attend some classes here and there. I dont know how I would do that. My wife is starting a nursing course and wants to become a nurse. I may support her in this and then take some classes. Of course even if there are no credits with the BBN course, it would be good to get some good solid Bible study in from some other teachers as well. Please pray for me. Perhaps God has brought you in my life to encourage me to take the course. Perhaps he will use it somehow. I will pray about this. Thank you for your friendship and encouragement as well as your solid stand for the gospel and grace alone.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Bro. Brian,

Your words always encourage me, brother!

A feature of the BBN BI is that you can take courses at your own pace & according to your schedule. No, there are no college credits, but the sole purpose is to get the Word deeper into our hearts & lives. You may want to check out the home page now (www.bbnbi.org). There is an excellent article there until it is replaced this Monday by another great one, that deals with the purpose of the BI. Take care & we appreciate your prayers for us as well. We sure will pray for you. The Lord will always use His Word in our lives. he is using it in you to help me!! I love 2 Co.1:3-4 in this regard. Also Psalm 84:5-6. I am sure you know that Psalm 84 was Spurgeon's favorite Psalm. God Bless!

Only Look said...

Psalm 84? No I did not. Thanks so much for that info brother. I will check it out as well as the Psalm.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

Only Look said...

How true Psalm 84:10 is. Hallelujah!

Waiting to beam up brother,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

You know bro. Brian,

I just can't read Psalm 84 without feeling like I'm just walking along somewhere with the Lord at His side, kinda like ol' Enoch in Ge.5:22!

Amen about the beamin' up! Just the thought of it has me beamin'!!

David Wyatt said...

Speaking of Psalm 84 & the HCSB! This is from Bible Gateway:

1 How lovely is Your dwelling place,
LORD of Hosts.
2 I long and yearn
for the courts of the LORD;
my heart and flesh cry out for the living God.
3 Even a sparrow finds a home,
and a swallow, a nest for herself
where she places her young—
near Your altars, LORD of Hosts,
my King and my God.
4 How happy are those who reside in Your house,
who praise You continually.
Selah
5 Happy are the people whose strength is in You,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,
they make it a source of springwater;
even the autumn rain will cover it with blessings.
7 They go from strength to strength;
each appears before God in Zion.
8 LORD God of Hosts, hear my prayer;
listen, God of Jacob. Selah
9 Consider our shield, God;
look on the face of Your anointed one.
10 Better a day in Your courts
than a thousand [anywhere else].
I would rather be at the door of the house of my God
than to live in the tents of the wicked.
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield.
The LORD gives grace and glory;
He does not withhold the good
from those who live with integrity.
12 LORD of Hosts, happy is the person who trusts in You!

Bhedr said...

Amen. What a wonderful Psalm. With all of my heart I will continue to support the ministry of BBN and the work you are doing there.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Thank you bro. Brian. You are a blessing to me as well.

Only Look said...

I signed up for the BBN Institute courses today. I thanked God for forgiving me of talking so proudly and acting as Naaman when talking with you as though I should do some great thing in getting college credits to somehow try and better myself...not that this is wrong but that this should not be the goal. I can see why the Lord brought you into my life. The courses even on the basic first doctrines have questions that encourage one to listen closely. They are worded very well and sometimes quickly. One must listen closely. I have often found myself to be a better reader and a poor listener. This has often been why I have become such a know it all. Now I am required to listen closely. God is trying to discipline my mind through this and make me into what He desires me to be. Thank you so much brother. I did get a
100 on my first course. It was a good hour spent and much learning.

God bless you and grace upon grace,

Brian

Only Look said...

I meant to say "tricky" not "quickly". I must have had a brain lapse.

Only Look said...

Also, you would think I would have already signed up having linked you a while back:-)

We come in all shapes and sizes.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Glad you are enjoying the courses bro. Brian. We are so thankful to be able to make them available. I am enjoying them as well. We all need to grow in our faith, I know I do.
Since this thread is about the HCSB, do you have any experience with using it?

Only Look said...

Thank you brother. yes I have. You may have missed an earlier comment. My Pastor passed out the NT first and we all read them about 3 years or so ago before the full Bible was completed. It reads very smoothly.

One day about 3 years ago I had yelled at one of my sons for misbehaving. I told myself that I needed to get into the word to make myself feel worse about it or something. I opened that NCSB NT and the words immediately bounced off the page and said, "You are my beloved son. I take delight in you."

I was floored with the goodness of God and my spirit was renewed. He has been so good to help me see that his grace is what neutralizes the anger. Continue to pray for me. I certainly dont want to make a boast about not being angry and yelling at my children as I know what can happen when I do, so I will leave it at that and be thankful.

BTW, today I was having a good talk with my mom and as we talked since having told her I met you out here in the blogdom but had already known you from listening to BBN(yet you did not know me), she mentioned that she knows Harold Richards. She said that he was her first principal as a young teacher before we left for the mission field I guess and while BBN was soon to be given birth in the Tidewater area. I guess they were all a part of a big happy family of fundamentalist in that area back then.

My mom has been through a lot herself and some very unfair circumstances. God is good though. She is homeschooling my middle son.

What a small world we live in. Isnt it amazing how Gods people and army are all around us without us even realizing it. I remember that day you popped into my blog and I never knew you were there. What balm that was. May the Lord continue to bless you and the wonderful ministry of BBN.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

Bro. Brian,

Thank you brother for sharing that! Praise the Lord. The power & grace of His Word!!

Ain't that neat about your Mom & bro. Harold!! Thank you for sharing that. How awesome it will be worshipping together around the Throne listening to how the Lord worked all these things out to His glory!! God Bless.

Only Look said...

Amen, what a day that will be as we behold our God of grace.

As a note. The HCSB centers and puts into highlight lettering precious words like that. I know that those were the words spoken to Jesus, but in HIm those are the words spoken to us as well.

Grace upon grace,

Brian

David Wyatt said...

I like that bro. Brian. Thank you for that note. I was not aware that the HCSB did that. Another reason to check into it further. God Bless.

Lou Martuneac said...

David:

Sorry to intrude, but I don't have your e-mail.

I saw that you no longer appear at Unashamed of Grace in the Our Other Blogs section.

Why is that?


LM

David Wyatt said...

Bro. Lou,

Hi. So as to keep this thread on topic as much as possible, I will only post this just this one time. I love my brothers & sisters at UoG & we have no ill feelings toward one another whatsoever, I simply believed it was best that I bow out since I do not post as often as I once did. We simply have a friendly disagreement over some issues & as I said I felt it best to bow out gracefully. If you have further input concerning the HCSB I would appreciate hearing your comments. Otherwise, I will say no more concerning your question here. May the Lord bless you brother.

Lou Martuneac said...

David:

That was all I wanted to know.

Thanks,


LM

David Wyatt said...

My pleasure bro. Lou. God Bless.

Any more comments on the HCSB anyone?

weirdthinkers said...

Hello David,

A bit late on this but thought I should comment anyhow. If you are looking for a readable and yet literal bible, then the HCSB is the one. I have been reading and studying with it for sometime now, and I just love the translation.

I use it as my devotional, study, and teaching/preaching bible. I also use the ESV/TNIV/Message/NLT when doing studies.

I just did a write on the Legacy HCSB if you want to read that, you can that here: http://weirdthinkers.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/holman-legacy-csb-bible/

Also, here are a few other good references: http://homepage.mac.com/rmansfield/thislamp/files/Holman_Christian_Standard_Bible.html

And the interview with Dr. Blum:
http://anwoth.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/interview-with-dr-ed-blum-general-editor-for-the-hcsb/

God bless,
Robert

David Wyatt said...

Thank you bro. Robert. I just now saw your comment. Thanks for the links. I will hopefully get a chance to check on them soon. Come back anytime. God Bless.